kerdi membrane over cement board

You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. . ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. You are wise to use a cement board. Thanks Paul! Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Welcome to the site. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. No, that doesn't sound right. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. We sponge water onto the cement board. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. I appreciate your help and your quick response. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . I imagine we could share some good stories. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Is this overkill? Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Kerdi vs Redguard cost breakdown. : r/HomeImprovement - reddit However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). Can Kerdi membrane be installed over painted drywall? They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. . ! I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. #2. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Jun 21, 2017. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. See the foam bench and the corners. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. x 48 in. x 96 in. Building Panel Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. 1. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? I also used the Kerdi drain. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. It may take more than 1 beer:). The mortar does . If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Your email address will not be published. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. Will use the Schluter Shower system. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. This is the traditional tile backer. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. There are numerous ways to do this. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. rev2023.3.3.43278. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. We want that inside corner able to move. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Schluter-KERDI | Waterproofing (KERDI) | Schluter With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. I'm thirsty. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Best Cement Boards for the Shower - The Spruce Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. To line niche shelves, for instance. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. rev2023.3.3.43278. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. x 96 in. We recommend our users to update the browser. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com 120 sq feet including the floor. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Find the website that's made specifically for you. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out.

Wilson Pro Staff 97 String Pattern, Articles K